PRAYERS

NOTICE OF MOTION

A B

TO

Dr. Khalwale:

beg to give notice of the following Motion:-

THAT, concerned that the workers

retirement savings in the National

Social Security Fund (NSSF)

continue to be mismanaged

through financial misadventures by

the Financial and Investment

Committee of the Fund; this House

grants leave for the introduction a

Bill to amend the NSSF Act so as

to protect the workers money,

subject it to Retirement Benefits

Authority Regulations, prevent the

NSSF from dealing directly with

banks and provide for employment

by the NSSF of professional

managers to advise the Finance and

Investments committee.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

QUESTIONS BY PRIVATE NOTICE

C

A

(Mr. Magerer)

for Transport:-

(a) Could the Minister table before

the House documents relating to

the Kenya Airports Authority

tender for the supply,

installation, implementation and

commissioning of an integrated

Enterprise Resource Planning

System (ERP)

(b) Is the Minister aware that

the KAA Board has formed an

oversight tender committee

contrary to the Public

Procurement and Disposal Act,

which board has altered parts of

the above tender's requirements

to suit a company associated

with some of the board

members?

(c) Given the foregoing

anomalies, could the Minister

consider cancelling the tender

and order re-tendering?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

not here?

Next Question by Dr. Khalwale!

E

FROM

Dr. Khalwale

Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Lands the

Khalwale]

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES November 5, 2008

3260

following Question by Private Notice.

(a) Is the Minister aware that thousands of

wananchi in Kangemi's Dam Village, Nairobi are

currently homeless after they were evicted by a

private developer from Plots No.LR.22767 and

LR.22768 (off Waiyaki Way)?

(b) Who is the legal owner of those parcels

of land?

(c) What urgent steps is the Minister taking

to solve the dispute, considering that the squatters,

the developer and the Veterinary Animal Research

Department have all laid claim to the plots?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Lands not here? Honourable Vice-President and

Minister for Home Affairs?

An hon. Member:

The Vice-President and Minister for

Home Affairs

Speaker, Sir, it could very well be that due to the

great amount of excitement in the country this

morning, some of these hon. Members may not be

here on time. If you could just bear with them, they

are all celebrating, in their own way, the big and

very historic win by Senator Obama.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

of that, the Chair will have to wait and proceed to

the next Question!

Next Question by Mr. Shakeel!

Dr. Khalwale:

Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have heard none other

than the Leader of Government Business

acknowledge that because of Obama's win in the

United States of America (USA), the House is

crippled. Could we allow him to move a Motion

for Adjournment so that we could also continue

the celebrations of having a Kenyan ruling the

USA? I humbly request!

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

President has already done that and you must

appreciate. Tomorrow is a public holiday. So,

Kenyans will have a long day to celebrate,

including today.

Let us proceed to the next Question by

Private Notice by Mr. Shakeel!

I

ON

(Mr. Shakeel)

Minister for Transport:-

(a) Could the Minister explain

why the East African Airlines

aircraft destined for Kisumu on

Thursday 31st July, 2008, at

5.45 p.m. failed to take off on

the run way at the JKIA

Airport?

(b) Could the Minister take

urgent action to ground that

aeroplane, Fokker (Registration

No.5Y-EEE) before a major

disaster?

(c) Could the Minister order an

urgent technical audit to ensure

that the above airline does not

flout established air safety

regulations and rules?

An hon. Member:

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Kogelo?

Let us move on to Ordinary Questions!

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

U

S

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

not here?

An hon. Member:

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

by Mr. Outa!

R

IN

I

November 5, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3261

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

here?

An hon. Member:

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Next Question by Eng. Maina!

G

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

here?

An hon. Member:

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

R

FOR

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Kogelo?

Next Question by Mr. M'Mithiaru!

W

A

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

not here?

An hon. Member:

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

this is getting too much now! This is a Sovereign

State and we have a Parliament that is the supreme

institution in this country. It is fair to be happy with

the results of the American elections, but we have

a sovereign country. We have very important

business to transact in this House! Next

Question by Mr. Nyamai!

Y

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

not here?

An hon. Member:

Next Question by Mr. Munyaka!

C

N

M

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

not here?

An hon. Member:

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

by Mr. Kambi!

R

-K

Mr. Kambi

for Roads:-

(a) whether he is aware that

Mazeras-Kaloleni Road is

completely. Kambi]

dilapidated and is now

[Mr. Kambi]

almost impassable; and,

(b) what urgent steps he will

take to re-carpet the road to

ease the burden on motorists.

The Minister for Public Works

Obure): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with your

permission, may I take this opportunity, on

behalf of myself, and I am sure many hon.

Members in this House and many Kenyans, to

congratulate Mr. Barrack Obama for his victory

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES November 5, 2008

3262

in the USA. I know that his victory will assist to

improve the economic welfare of the people, not

only of the USA, but all over the world.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

(a) I am aware that the road between

Mazeras and Kaloleni is in a poor state. However,

the road is motorable.

(b) My Ministry will patch potholes this

financial year under routine maintenance. In

addition, resealing of this particular section will

commence in January, 2009.

Mr. Kambi:

appreciate the answer by the Minister. However, is

he aware that, as we speak, motorists from

Mombasa to Kaloleni are not using this road but

have diverted to Mariakani-Mavueni Road because

of the bad state of the road? What steps is he

taking? Has he factored money for this road in the

Budget?

Mr. Obure:

was not aware that motorists have diverted to

another road because of the very poor state of a

section of this road. But we have allocated some

money in the first quarter of this financial year, a

total of Kshs7 million. We are in the process of

allocating a further Kshs12.8 million to make this

section motorable. I am sure that what the

motorists are experiencing at the moment will be

short-lived and the situation will be rectified

shortly.

Mr. Gunda:

when this road was first constructed, one could

drive from Mazeras to Kaloleni without seeing any

other vehicle. Today, the road is not only very busy

but the type of vehicles that used the road then

were up to seven tonnes. Today there is a cement

factory at Kaloleni and we have trucks weighing 60

tonnes using that road, and that is the reason it has

deteriorated. Could the Minister confirm to the

House that, when they re-carpet it, they will do so

to accommodate the heavy trucks using the road at

the moment?

Mr. Obure:

Sir. That is something we are experiencing all the

time. Whenever we do a good road, traffic is

diverted to that road, sometimes heavier traffic

than initially envisaged; so, destruction of the road

takes place on the first day. We will take into

consideration what the hon. Member has just

said to ensure that we strengthen the surface of

that road to ensure that it can accommodate the

heavier trucks.

Mr. Washiali:

Sir, I would like to know from the Minister the

criteria they use in choosing the roads to be

tarmacked, because you will find that we have

roads which are very important to the people -

there is a high number of vehicles that are using

that road - yet they do not consider it for

tarmacking. For example, there is a road from

Mumias to the southern part of Mumias called

Musanda in my place. It has very heavy traffic

but they have never considered tarmacking that

road. Which criteria do they use?

Mr. Obure:

you will appreciate that the hon. Member has

taken us from Mazeras-Kaloleni Road in Coast

Province, all the way to Western Province to

raise a different Question. However, I would

like to say that we apply specific criteria. First,

is economic viability of the road, the volume of

traffic passing on the road and the classification

of the road in question. So, these are the

criteria, not necessarily scientific, but we are in

the process of reviewing this to ensure that the

criteria become as reasonable and as logical as

possible.

Mr. Ruteere:

Sir, between now and January is two

November 5, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3263

[Mr. Ruteere]

months. We are in the same financial year that we

will be in January. Why is it necessary to wait up to

next year so that re-sealing can start instead of

re-sealing right now?

Mr. Obure:

have to prepare for re-sealing. At the moment, we

are patching the potholes to make the surface

ready for re-sealing in January.

Mr. Kambi:

Minister has said that he will start the re-sealing in

2009. Could he tell this House how much money

has been budgeted for the re-sealing of this road?

Mr. Obure:

know that we have allocated funds for this road

but, unfortunately, I do not have the figure with me

right now, but I will make it available to the hon.

Member.

F

B

K

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

is not here!

We will go back to Questions by Private

Notice! Mr. Langat!

C

A

(Mr. Magerer)

for Transport.

(a) Could the Minister table before

the House documents relating to

the Kenya Airports Authority

(KAA) tender for the supply,

installation, implementation and

commissioning of an integrated

enterprise resource planning

system (ERP)?

(b) Is the Minister aware that KAA

Board has formed an oversight

tender committee contrary to

the Public Procurement and

Disposal Act, which board has

altered parts of the above

tender's requirements to suit a

company associated with some

of the board members?

(c) Given the foregoing

anomalies, could the Minister

consider cancelling the tender

and order re-tendering?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

not here! The Question is dropped!

E

R

N

Dr. Khalwale:

Sir, for the second time, I beg to ask the

Minister for Lands the following Question by

Private Notice.

(a) Is the Minister aware that thousands

of wananchi in Kangemi's Dam Village,

Nairobi, are currently homeless after they were

evicted by a private developer from Plot

Nos.LR.22767 and LR.22768, off Waiyaki

Way?

(b) Who is the legal owner of these

parcels of land?

(c) What urgent steps is the Minister

taking to solve the dispute, considering that the

squatters, the developer and the Veterinary

Research Department have all laid claim to the

plots?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Lands? He is not here! Mr. Vice-President and

Leader of Government Business! The

Deputy Speaker]

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES November 5, 2008

3264

Minister for Lands is not in the House to answer

Questions!

The Vice-President and Minister for

Home Affairs

Speaker, Sir, this is applicable to hon. Members,

who had been listed to ask Questions this morning,

as well as Ministers.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Vice-President! We are citizens of the Republic of

Kenya! This is a supreme institution of this

country. Our responsibility is to our country, first

and foremost. We are not citizens of the USA!

Much as we appreciate and we are all happy;

nonetheless we are a country ourselves.

So, it is not an excuse for a Minister to be

away from his own Parliament, because he is

celebrating the victory of another presidential

candidate in another country.

The Vice-President and Minister for

Home Affairs

Speaker, Sir, I had it in my notes that Mr. Bifwoli

was supposed to be here to answer this Question.

He must be trying to get here. But as my sister, Dr.

Kosgey, has also pointed out to me, my friend, Mr.

Lessonet, is also not here. So, we appreciate

that---

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Vice-President! When hon. Members are not here,

they suffer the consequences because the

Questions are dropped!

The Vice-President and Minister for

Home Affairs

Deputy Speaker, Sir. My apologies to the House

because there is nobody from the Ministry of

Lands. The only Ministry I was aware that it was

not ready this morning is the Ministry of Transport,

because they are saying that the Order Paper was

not taken to their Ministry; therefore, they were

not in a position to prepare answers.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, for them, both hon.

Members are not able to ask the Questions today.

However, I think it is important that I point that

out so that the Clerk's Department will ensure that

Ministries get Order Papers in time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Government Business, the issue we have right

now is: When do we get an answer for

Question No.2 by Private Notice from the

Minister for Lands? We need a firm

undertaking as to when we will get the answer.

The Vice-President and Minister for

Home Affairs

Speaker, Sir, we will look for the Minister and

his Assistant and make sure that the Question is

listed for next Tuesday because tomorrow is a

public holiday.

Mr. Koech:

Deputy Speaker, Sir. From your ruling, you

have understood why the Minister for Lands is

not in the House. We cannot avoid to remove

the blood from one of our own and pretend that

we are not celebrating. Would I be in order to

request that the Question asked by hon.

Lessonet be also deferred to another date?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

the role of the Chair!

Dr. Khalwale:

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It might not be in the

knowledge of the Vice-President and Minister

for Home Affairs that this Question is talking

about 2,000 families who are now homeless in

Kangemi Dam Village. Due to the urgency of

the matter, as we wait for the Minister for

Lands to come, could the Vice-President and

Minister for Home Affairs undertake to

accompany me tomorrow so that we visit these

people at Dam Village in Kangemi who have

been living there for the last 19 years? A private

developer, who is a friend of this Government,

was allowed to kick them out.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

point of order but, nonetheless, the

Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs

will be at liberty to answer that.

Dr. Khalwale:

Sir, and as he comes, allow me to give to

Khalwale]

him an appeal signed by 1,220 men and women

who are living in that camp; in the cold. Two

primary schools and 12 churches have been

knocked down. Allow me to give the

Vice-President this appeal to read. Also, allow

me to give him two Digital Video Discs

November 5, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3265

(DVDs) having clips showing how his policemen

destroyed that village, maimed and raped women

and hit children, so that he can see it before he

accompanies me to Kangemi Dam Village

tomorrow afternoon. This is a very serious matter.

This is how your police are behaving in this

country! No wonder they brought post-election

violence.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Khalwale! Much as the matter is emotive as you

have put it and you are passionate about it, the

issue is not before the House. There is no Minister

to answer that. That now becomes the substance

you are going to table when the Minister is

answering the Question. Nonetheless, if the

Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs has

a preliminary answer to it and on his own volition

would want to accompany you, the Chair has no

objection to it but you cannot compel him to do

that.

The Vice-President and Minister for

Home Affairs

Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member for Ikolomani

knows he is my friend and I appreciate his

invitation but I would want to plead with him that

we wait until Tuesday to be able to get a

comprehensive answer from the Minister. So, let

me not be the one to jump the gun by

accompanying him. He has made some very

serious allegations against the police and I think

this matter should be taken in his stride next

Tuesday.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

deferred to Tuesday next week.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Private Notice by hon. Shakeel!

I

ON

Mr. Shakeel

for Transport:-

(a) Could the Minister explain

why the East African Airlines

aircraft destined to Kisumu on

Thursday 31st July, 2008, at

5.45 p.m failed to take off the

runway at Jomo Kenyatta

International Airport?

(b) Could the Minister take

urgent action to ground this

aeroplane Fokker (Registration

No.5Y-EEE) before a major

disaster?

(c) Could the Minister order an

urgent technical audit to ensure

that the above airline does not

flout established air safety

regulations and rules?

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

also not here? The Question is dropped!

U

S

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

not here? The Question is dropped!

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

by Mr. Outa!

R

IN

Mr. Outa

for Water and Irrigation:-

(a) whether she is aware that

the National Irrigation Board

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES November 5, 2008

3266

(NIB) is not servicing or

maintaining the infrastructure of

irrigation schemes, particularly

South West Kano and Ahero

irrigation schemes;

(b) whether she is further aware

that the road network within the

schemes is dilapidated and the

drainage systems bushy and

blocked; and,

(c) what she is doing to ensure that

infrastructure in the schemes are

adequately maintained at all times.

The Assistant Minister for Water and

Irrigation

Sir, as you can see, people are really celebrating.

However, I am wondering whether the Americans

have not reported to work and yet it is their

victory. I am also hoping that there will be no

homecoming for Obama. If there is one, the Leader

of Government Business should alert us in good

time so that we can set up a committee to organize

for his homecoming.

However, I beg to reply.

(a) My Ministry, through the NIB, has not

stopped operation and maintenance services of the

infrastructure of Ahero and South West Kano

irrigation schemes. The Board continues to finance

major infrastructure and rehabilitation of the

schemes. The farmers, through the co-ordination

of the Scheme Management Committee and

support of the Board, pay an agreed fee to meet

the operation and maintenance costs for infield

systems as part of the participatory irrigation

management. However, our efforts to rehabilitate

and put the schemes back to full operation status

are being frustrated by some leaders from the area

who are inciting the youths and non-scheme

farmers against the genuine farmers' leaders.

(b) I am further aware that the road

network within the schemes is dilapidated and

drainage systems are bushy and blocked. During

the Financial Year 2007/2008, a total of 20.3

kilometres of road were graded and another two

kilometres were graded and gravelled and 31.5

kilometres of the drainage system were

maintained. Additional work will be undertaken

this financial year to restore the schemes' roads

and facilitate access by farmers.

(c) The combined acreage of Ahero and

West Kano schemes is about 1,800 hectares.

To be precise, it is 1,777 hectares.

Unfortunately, some leaders from the area have

been interfering with the management of the

schemes. As a result, the schemes operate at

only 30 per cent of their potential, a situation

which has led to the farmers becoming poorer.

However, my Ministry, through the NIB, has

continued to maintain the main infrastructure

with the aim of handing over the maintenance

of the secondary infrastructure to farmers as

part of participatory irrigation management.

This is in line with the incoming policy and

institutional framework for the irrigation

subsector in the country.

Mr. Outa:

while we are still in the mood of celebrating the

victory of the President-elect of the US,

Barrack Obama, I want to thank the Assistant

Minister for attempting to answer this

Question. However, I want to bring to his

notice the fact that the NIB has lost its saltiness

in delivering the services as mandated by the

Act. West Kano and Ahero

irrigation schemes collapsed because of the

poor management by the NIB and that is true

since it is on record---

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

question!

Mr. Outa:

let me just elaborate a little bit on the situation

in South West Kano and Ahero irrigation

schemes. Could the Assistant Minister inform

the House what his Ministry is doing to provide

enough money to be able to maintain

infrastructure, especially the main and feeder

canals so that the farmers can have access to

water to be able to carry out rice production

adequately and in time? Secondly, how much

money are they intending to allocate for that

purpose?

Mr. Kiunjuri:

Sir, it is interesting to note that we have

November 5, 2008 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3267

personal interests and we are not declaring them.

However, it is always important that, as hon.

Members, when we have personal interests, we

declare them. We have answered the Question.

The Ministry has a new Minister and an Assistant

Minister who are very capable. We have

reorganised most of the sectors, including the

National Irrigation Board (NIB), which is now

very alert and doing its work.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have the

estimates for the work that is supposed to be done

at Ahero Irrigation Scheme. It is a total of

Kshs8,170,000. For Kano Irrigation Scheme, the

estimate is Kshs9.9 million.

Mr. Outa:

would like to the tell the Assitant Minister that the

National Irrigation Board (NIB) has failed in its

mandate. The money they are talking about has

been generated in the scheme under what is called

participatory management with the farmers. The

Government has never given any money for

repairing the main and feeder canals. The money

we have received to maintain the canals was paid

by the farmers to provide what is called Operation

and Maintainance. As I speak, the NIB receives

this money but in return, they are not giving the

services worth the Operation and Maintenance

money paid by farmers. How much money did the

Ministry allocate to the project in 2007/2008 for

maintaining the main canal and pumps in the

irrigation scheme in order for the farmers to get

enough water for irrigation?

Mr. Kiunjuri:

is true that a participatory programme has been put

in place. Farmers and us come together in order to

maintain Operation and Maintenance. I have said

here that this project is only operating at 30 per

cent. There is no way you can expect a project

operating at 30 per cent to be self-sustaining. I

have said clearly that this is due to political

interference. I thought the hon. Member would

attempt to question me on that fact but because he

did not, that tells you it is true that there is political

interference. It is also true that there are personal

interests in this matter. Kenyans are suffering and

we cannot allow the leadership of this country to

continue politicking instead of taking the necessary

action. I would wish that we deal with the political

question. We need to reorganise those farmers

if we have their interests at heart.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

by Mr. Maina!

N

BY THE

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

here? The Question is dropped!

Next Question!

Mr. Outa:

Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

point of order? I hope it is not on the

[Mr. Deputy Speaker]

Question we have just disposed of!

Mr. Outa:

is still within---

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

We have passed that now---

Mr. Outa:

Deputy Speaker, Sir!

Mr. Deputy Speaker

not too short! You had ample time to seek

clarifications, to ask supplementary questions

and all that. We have gone to the next Question

and business continues.

Next Question, Mr. Affey!

R

FOR

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

here? The Question is dropped!

W

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES November 5, 2008

3268

A

Mr. M'Mithiaru

Minister for Finance:-

(a) whether he is aware that

financial institutions in Kenya hold

billions of shillings in unclaimed

financial assets;

(b) whether he is further aware that

widows, orphans and other

dependants have suffered due to

lack of a formal mechanism to

reclaim the funds; and,

(c) what action he is taking in

order to resolve this matter.

The Assistant Minister for Finance

Oburu): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

(a) Yes, I am aware that financial

institutions in Kenya hold billions of shillings in

unclaimed financial assets in the region of Kshs38

billion.

(b) Yes, I am further aware that widows,

orphans and other dependants may have suffered

due to lack of an appropriate mechanism to reclaim

the funds.

(c) In March, 2008, a task force was

constituted to look into the issue and make

approporiate recommendations. Its findings were

discussed with stakeholders on 30th October,

2008, and I am, therefore, waiting for the final

report in order to act on it.

Mr. M'Mithiaru:

Sir, the Assistant Minister has made an attempt to

answer the Question. However, the Kshs38 billion

that he says is held by the financial institutions is a

terrible under-statement. I am aware that in most

of these financial institutions after about two to

three years, if the funds are not claimed, they write

them back to their profits and distibute the money

to the shareholders. This is depriving the ordinary

Kenyans their rightful shares. Could the Assistant

Minister give us a breakdown of this Kshs38 billion

in order of the financial institutions wherever they

are?

Dr. Oburu:

amount which can be determined is the Kshs38

billion. However, this issue is so serious that it is

the Ministry of Finance that drew the attention of

the House to this fact during the Budget

Speech. So, when the hon. Member was asking

whether the Minister is aware, actually, it is the

Minister who made the Member aware that

there is a serious situation. A task force has

been formed to look into this. They have

already produced a preliminary report giving a

breakdown of all the issues. That report will

*********************************