To: Iraq@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 11:53 PM

I understand your question now. Thank you. You told
<<I know who the owners of the USA international corporations
are.>> 
So yes, the same answer works for USA and for China. I also know some 
of the people who own USA or Chinese international corporations. 
Aditionally, in China, the strategic corporations, the backbone of 
Chinese economy, are state owned.
<<... I could be wrong because I do not live in China - the 
international corporations of the world came to China because of the 
millions of people without work which meant for the companies cheap 
labor>>
Yes, that is wrong, it is a myth. International corporations were 
allowed by government to enter China little by little and step by 
step once China´s economy was already growing fast and once the 
government was reasonably convinced that, in the long run, the 
Chinese companies would defeat the foreign ones. Even today, it is 
really hard for a foreigner to be allowed to invest in China. China 
does not want foreign investments, never wanted that, China is one of 
the banks of the world, $1.8 trillions in foreign reserves plus many 
other items. Why would want more capital?. It would produce more 
inflation, nothing else. China wants foreign expertise,managerial 
sills, technology, etc. Despite what people in the West believe, for 
example, GM or Ford do not own factories in China, Chinese 
corporations ( i.e. SAIC) own factories that, partnering with GM or 
Ford, manufacture cars with GM or Ford technology.
Wallmart does not own malls in China, Mr. Wu own those malls and 
manages them partnering with Wallmart, Wallmart receives royalties 
for it. In this case, even the name is not Wallmart but Wumart.
The true reason because most corporations went to China is because it 
is a 1.3 billions market and because its size is large enough and its 
internal costs are low enough to multiply the volume and therefore to 
reduce the manufacturing costs to sell it, not just in China, but in 
many developing or emerging countries that, with the costs in the 
West, and the volume in the West, could not afford. 
In many places in China, you do not have to work for survival, 
survival is already granted. If somebody works and produces 10 bikes 
a day and receives just $1 per bike, for many people, that is cool 
enough because they can save $10 a day for whatever they want, and 
obviously it is cool for the factory as well.
Let me give you an example, and this matches what prof. Krugman 
tells, if you produce only for Europe, Japan and USA, you can produce 
1 million bikes per year, at $100 per bike. If you are able to 
produce 10 million bikes per year at $50 per bike you can enter in 
China, India, Asia, Africa, Latinamerica, etc. because those areas 
can afford $50 but not $100. You cannot produce 10 millions bikes per 
year in the West, the West has not population enough. And the West 
cannot produce them at $50 because the labor costs, because many 
other costs are also higher and because it has no sense to produce 10 
millions bikes to sell just 1 million.
To produce one bike is not just to produce one bike. It is to produce 
two wheels, to produce one chair, to produce the plastic that coves 
the wheels, etc. etc. etc. You need millions working in factories to 
produce all those parts to finally have 10 millions bikes per year. 
If those millions are close to each other you can create 
infraestructures that make transportation, energy, etc. cheaper for 
the factory. But also, if those millions are close to each other you 
can create cities where life is much cheaper (even almost free) and 
therefore labor costs can be even lower.
Once you have such vast infraestruture, no other area can compete 
against you. You won the bikes, but probably also manufacturing 
mortorbikes, wheels for cars, wheels for trucks, planes, etc.  and 
later manufacturing cars, planes, etc.
That is the trend that prof. Krugman points out as one of the 
failures of the free market capitalism. At the end, it is a monopoly 
and nobody else can compete with it. At the end, the rest of the 
world becomes just consumption economy.
If you are such developing country and you have population enough, 
you can sell your products not just to developed countries but also 
to other developing countries like yours.
In China, this process started years before Kissinger met chairman 
Mao and years before the first US dollar entered mainland China. It 
happened through Hong Kong, and then Hong Kong sold those products 
branded "made in Hong Kong", but mostly made in Guangdong, to the 
rest of the world.
The history of this process is really amazing.
:)
Peace and best wishes.
Xi
      
--- In Iraq@yahoogroups.com, moms43place <moms43place@...> wrote:
 I know who the owners of the USA international corporations are.  
And it gets published early who the wealthiest people are in the 
USA.  I like to know this because as I watch the state legislature, 
the Congress, presidents, court judges, I can figure out if it's good 
for the US or is it just a greedy move on the part of the wealthy 
capitalists who run this country through their donations at election 
time to the contenders.  
  
 As I understand - and I know I could be wrong because I do not live 
in China - the international corporations of the world came to China 
because of the millions of people without work which meant for the 
companies cheap labor, and these companies squeezed every penny they 
could out of the Chinese government and the Chinese manufacturers.  
  
 I'd like to know how does the average worker fair in China:  Start 
with one with noe skills except farming, then someone with a middle 
school education, to high school, to college, and those belonging to 
the communit party.
  
 I have read that the propsperity in China is mostly on the east 
coast, in pockets, with Shanghia the most prosperous.  With the 
international corporations (from all over the world) squeezing for 
the cheapest production cost, how is any employer in China making any 
real profit?  And then where does the prosperity of Shanghia come 
from?
  
 Best wishes always, and thanks for taking the time to answer my 
questions....
  
 Tess
 
 --- On Mon, 11/17/08, xieu.ling <xieu.ling@...> wrote:
 
 From: xieu.ling <xieu.ling@...>
 Subject: [Iraq] Re: The US economy
 To: Iraq@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 8:26 AM
 
 
 <<I feel we need to bring back our maufacturing jobs and develop a 
 level playing field with all companies we have a trading agreement 
 with or where our jobs have been outsourced-- -a level playing 
field 
 for workers.  I understand that now that China's labor costs are 
 going up that companies are going to India , Malayia, etc.  Correct 
 me if I'm wrong, Xi.>>
 I recommend you to read the recent Nobel laureate in economics for 
 his work on geographical trends in free market economies, prof. 
Paul 
 Krugman. There is an unstoppable trend in a free market economy 
thatleads to monopoly of mass production to Guangdong province and 
 neighbour areas (that includes Vietnam). Low wages jobs move nearby

(such as Vietnam or Guangxi) while fresh higher wage jobs are 
created in Guangdong. There are other types of production different than 
mass production that are more and more moving to their monopolistic 
areas.  For example, the global hub for continuus production (such as steel  or chemichal)

seems to be moving to the corridor Shanghai-Nanjing 
 corridor. And large machinery to Northeast China, South Korea or 
 Japan depending on the type of equiments (such as trains, ships, 
 planes, etc.).
 
 << Xi - who are the wealthy in China, especially Shanhai?  And 
where 
 does their money come from? >>
 
 To be honest I do not know what to answer. How would you answer to 
 this question: who are the wealthy in USA, especially Chicago?  And 
 where does their money come from?. Probably my answer regarding 
China  and Shanghai will be very similar to yours regarding Chicago. Maybe 
 if you elaborate your question further I will understand it a bit 
 better, if not my answer should be something like "I do not know 
who  they are because there are none in the Forbes list of billionaires, 
 in particular in Shanghai, all Chinese billionaires are from Hong 
 Kong, and their money, both in Shanghai and in Hong Kong comes from 
 many different industial fields", but I guess you expect something 
 more precise.
 http://www.forbes. com/2007/ 03/07/billionair es-worlds-
 richest_07billionai res_cz_lk_ af_0308billie_ land.html
 
 If your question is related to one of your daughters, I could help. 
 Not with the wealthy, but with "economically comfortable" singles. 
I  am done in this race, so all yours.
 
 ;)
 
 Peace and best wishes.
 
 Xi
 
 --- In Iraq@yahoogroups. com, moms43place <moms43place@ ...> wrote:
  
 Not that I don't realize the rest of the world is hurting, but 
 there is a burning issue I have here in the US, and I hope no one 
 takes offense:
  
 Wall Street and the Bush are worried because we aren't spending.  
 Why should we spend when almost everything we buy is foreign made?  
 It's sending our capital out of the country while we owe trillions 
in  debt to other countries, let alone our own debt.  I feel we need to 
 bring back our maufacturing jobs and develop a level playing field 
 with all companies we have a trading agreement with or where our 
jobs  have been outsourced-- -a level playing field for workers.  I 
 understand that now that China's labor costs are going up that 
 companies are going to India , Malayia, etc.  Correct me if I'm 
 wrong, Xi.
  
 Xi - who are the wealthy in China, especially Shanhai?  And where 
 does their money come from?
  
 Tess